Detroit's bankruptcy follows decades of decay

By Tom Krisher and Dee Ann Durbin/Associated Press

July 19, 2013

DETROIT (AP) — The city of Detroit, which for years paid its bills with borrowed money, is the largest city in U.S. history to file for bankruptcy protection. Here’s a look at how the city spiraled into financial ruin and why it’s in so much trouble:

WHAT HAPPENED?

For decades, Detroit paid its bills by borrowing money while struggling to provide the most basic of services for its residents. The city, which was about to default on a good chunk of its $14 billion-plus debt, now will get a second chance in a federal bankruptcy court-led restructuring. Detroit’s budget deficit this year alone is estimated at $380 million, and Kevyn Orr, its state-appointed emergency manager, chose bankruptcy over diverting money from police, fire and other services to make debt payments. The move conserves cash so the city can operate, but it will hurt Detroit’s image for years. It also leaves creditors with pennies on the dollar and places in jeopardy the pension benefits of thousands of city retirees.

WHY DID IT HAPPEN?

It took decades of decay to bring down the once-mighty industrial giant that put the world on wheels. The city grew to 1.8 million people in the 1950s, luring them with plentiful jobs that paid good wages to stamp out automobiles for sale across the globe. But like many American cities, Detroit’s fall began late that decade as developers starting building suburbs. Then came the 1967 riots that accelerated the number of white residents who moved to the cities north of Eight Mile Road, considered the region’s racial dividing line. At the same time, auto companies began opening plants in other cities, and the rise of autos imported from Japan started to cut the size of the U.S. auto industry. Detroit’s property values fell, tax revenue dropped, police couldn’t control a growing murder rate, and many middle-class blacks fled the city for safer suburbs with better schools. By 2009, the auto industry collapsed along with the economy as a whole, eventually pulling the city down with it. Government corruption under former Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick only made things worse. In the 2000 census, Detroit’s population fell under 1 million in as the exodus continued. Today it’s barely above 700,000.

DID THE AUTO INDUSTRY’S FALL DRAG DOWN DETROIT?

It’s a big factor. The city is littered with abandoned factories built in the postwar boom years, most of which have multiple stories. As the Japanese auto invasion began cutting into Detroit’s sales, General Motors, Chrysler, Ford and hundreds of auto parts companies looked outside the city to build one-story plants that could handle modern assembly lines. With every downturn, more companies abandoned the city, leaving the hulking buildings to squatters. Detroit’s tax base continued to erode. By the time the auto industry melted down in 2009, only a few factories from GM and Chrysler were left. GM is the only one with headquarters in Detroit, though it has huge research and testing centers with thousands of jobs outside the city.

WHERE ELSE HAS THIS HAPPENED?

Before Detroit, the largest local government bankruptcy filing was in Jefferson County, Ala., in November 2011. The county cited more than $4 billion in debt, mostly from corrupt deals involving sewer financing that fell apart when the home mortgage crisis hit in 2008. The county is still trying to clean up the mess. Last month, commissioners sought a compromise that calls for paying creditors a little over half the money they’re due and raising sewer rates. They hope to exit bankruptcy by December. Jefferson County has nearly 700,000 people, which is similar in size to Detroit, and includes the city of Birmingham. The economic crisis also caused bankruptcies of smaller cities. The California cities of Stockton, San Bernardino, and Mammoth Lakes all filed for bankruptcy last year. Stockton and San Bernardino were hit by plummeting home values during the recession, which cut property and sales taxes, while Mammoth Lakes was overwhelmed by a $43 million breach-of-contract judgment brought against it by a developer.

JUST WHO DOES DETROIT OWE?

There are 53 creditors negotiating with Orr’s restructuring team. Of those, 48 creditors are unsecured, meaning the money they’re owed is not backed by city revenue streams like water service fees or casino taxes. Other creditors include unions and retirees who receive city pensions. Two public employee pension systems are the top unsecured creditors, according to bankruptcy documents. The city General Retirement System’s claim is just more than $2 billion. The Police and Fire Retirement System is owed more than $1.4 billion. The documents filed also show more than 100,000 creditors that include individual retirees, city workers, banks, other businesses, property owners and litigants, though amounts owed aren’t listed.

GENERAL MOTORS REBOUNDED AFTER BANKRUPTCY. CAN DETROIT FOLLOW?

Maybe. In GM’s 2009 government-funded bankruptcy, the company was split in two, with money-making assets staying at GM and decrepit plants and billions in debt going to a separate company. GM reduced its debt from $46 billion to $8 billion and used the bankruptcy to close factories, shed brands and get more concessions from union workers. The new, leaner company has since racked up $17.2 billion in profits and added jobs in Detroit. For the city, the comeback will be much harder. Its decaying neighborhoods can’t be sent elsewhere. But creditors whom Detroit owes more than $14 billion will have to take pennies on the dollar. Thousands of retired city workers could lose at least part of their pension benefits. Concessions could be forced upon dozens of city unions, including pay and benefit cuts. Free of these financial burdens, Detroit will be able to concentrate its limited dollars on services such as basic police and fire protection. Better services could bring more people and lure more business investment. Already the downtown and an area to the north called Midtown are seeing business and residential growth — signs that Detroit has a future.

77 Comments on this post.

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  • jorge buesa
    19 July 2013 at 7:59 pm - Reply

    Detroit don’t give-up, they is sighs that Detroit has a future. General Motor is a good start, it rebounded after Bankruptcy. Good Luck Detroit !

    • jr(catholic against rightwingextremism)
      19 July 2013 at 8:21 pm - Reply

      Nice, positive, uplifting, hopeful post, Jorge!!! God Bless you!!!

  • Delia
    20 July 2013 at 4:35 am - Reply

    Jorge , General motors shipped all the Jobs to China , Cities after Cities will follow at this pace . I doubt if theres any recovery there . i saw the place and it looks like a ghost town .

  • jorge buesa
    20 July 2013 at 8:03 am - Reply

    Delia yes your right, China is the cheap place to do things. America wake-up don’t give our jobs to China. Detroit will have a future. The Detroit people is positive about the future.

  • noz
    20 July 2013 at 8:35 am - Reply

    BA picked, as usual a far, far lefty, liberal, progressive article. the associated press(AP) writers are aka administration press(AP). too many case and point to point out, about these two writers to cover up an economy in the tank under obama. these writers wrote in february, GM aka GOVERNMENT MOTORS, new car/truck sales are up, consumers are not letting higher gas prices or political dysfunctions stand in their way, failed to be specific as to how much was sold in percentage. the sales report was ginormous 3.7%, GM aka GOVERNMENT MOTORS rounded them up to 4%. the liberal writers are the economic twisters, aka liars for the obama administration. these writers knew damn well, its just a matter of time for detroit, once a bustling motor city to go BUST, all for the sake to make obama look good in dealing with economic front. dealers inventories were/continue to staggering high. the truth, consumers were not buying cars, trucks on the period these writers were falsely plugging messages to the public, largely fooling the professed liberals like BA, in turn fooling others. liberal writers like these two in particular, too bad, too many out there like them, spreading their fictional painting per article above, putting the blames on everything else except the unions that went overboard with their demands. the carmaker capitalists overburden with union demands packed their stuffs and ran away, that’s how detroit got into the mess they are in now.

    the detroit economic disaster, finally becoming a reality was in the making for almost five decades. the motor city was not able to compete globally with rising carmakers of the world. the US carmakers were consistently in struggles with the unions. the stronghold of the union then, have controlled the autoworkers as to what specifics of their actual works in negotiations, no room for management flexibility. management cannot asked or teach their autoworkers on any known advanced science in car making, without the union interfering flexing their muscles. the foreign carmakers using advanced science, techniques, like japan have become the emerging competitor with escalating american consumers preference, over the american made. the carmakers non stop, time consuming, running out of time engaged bickers with the union on tough negotiations or daily grievances, eventually carmakers resigned to the fight as a losing battle, led detroit, the motor city gasping for breath. the capitalist carmakers slowly but surely started moving out to avoid the wrath of the union, either moving to states with the right to work law, the next stop, eventually overseas with the market going globally, which Delia posted.

    the state of michigan passed the right to work law in 2012, hoping to woo the capitalists, entrepreneurs in all shapes and form for increase state revenues. the state increase revenues will extend financial aid to detroit, a city in dire straits. capitalists, described as new breed with strong business ideas, risking, gambling almost all their liquid assets are what detroit needs for resuscitation. the first big question though is, will people with millions or billions voluntarily invest in business under obama’s administration anti business, with his marxist ideologues. the trend of employers nationwide hiring mostly part time workers to beat obamacare is not a good economic sign for the nation. so the next question will be, as many economists casual question is, is bankruptcy coming to your hood?. americans no longer say are the russians coming?.

    • Delia
      20 July 2013 at 5:00 pm - Reply

      Noz , remember what Ross Perot predicted 2 decades ago ? Its becoming reality . To paraphrase ol’ Ross Perot, “What’s that sucking sound we hear emanating from Detroit? It’s the end product of liberal idiocy being flushed down the commode of reality.

    • Wil
      21 July 2013 at 11:17 am - Reply

      @Noz and Delia … you two can’t believe the crap you’re writing. You forgot to mention the greed of corporations. When a CEO of a company can get millions of dollars as bonuses for having a successful business; when it’s the workers that make that business successful. What does the worker get? Squat! that is what they get! In some ways it is about the Unions and others it’s not. You CAN NOT lay the blame entirely at the feet of the unions.

      • Delia
        21 July 2013 at 1:47 pm - Reply

        @Wil , can you point out to me where are the crap i said or wrote ? So far , i stated that GM has shifted the manufacturing job to China which is true . And the second post i made was paraphrasing a person . I dont know much about running a bussiness or Corporations , so i would’nt comment on them . I just happen to remember what Mr. Ross Perot said during his debate when he was running for President.

        Sometimes , I think most likely and most of the time , people can criticize so quick without comprehending whats been said , and thats where all misunderstanding begins . I’m not here to make a fight which is what happen so much, I just wanted to have a debate on something i know about . But more often , all i get is name calling and Critisism then suddenly i get called all kinds of names. I just hope sometimes people need to read before attacking and not belitteling people .

        There was never a time i was reputed on topic or issue discussion here , i get a dirty out of topic remarks right away. So , when one start me off that way , then theres a need to reply the same way they treat me as well . Its never wrong to tell the truth , truth will set me free and i can fight tooth for tooth if provoke.

        • noz
          21 July 2013 at 8:23 pm - Reply

          AMEN to you Delia.

        • Wil
          21 July 2013 at 10:54 pm - Reply

          @Delia, What you have said is only half truths. The cold hard fact is between Union demands and Corporate greed, is what did Detroit in. Why, do you think most major Corporations are moving their business(es) overseas? They don’t have to put up with safety laws, rules and regulations of the United States, Union demands. They don’t have to pay medical, or any other benefits to its employees. They don’t even have to pay a living wage to the employees. The bottom line is profit; how much can they line their pockets with. Look at all the sweat shops where garments are made for import into the United States. It may cost them 50 cents to make and they sell the clothing for 20, 30 even 40 dollars a piece in the United States. You know as well as I do the safety record in some of the factories in foreign countries are horrific. The Unions, yes some of their demands are exorbitant, but they do look after the workers. So like I wrote before it’s both their fault. I like a good debate. I remember Perot very well. I liked him until he ran from his critics.

          @Noz, you are just an anti capitalist person. More than likely a communist or socialist. Not everything that happens is POTUS’ fault. So, get over it.

          • noz
            22 July 2013 at 12:08 am -

            why not reread your writing before the capitalists of the world start laughing loud AT YOU.

          • noz
            22 July 2013 at 12:45 am -

            so, who do you think is supposed to be the leader of the USA. oh wait, i forgot, obama was not born a natural leader, therefore cannot lead this nation to prosperity, only to bankruptcy spreading like viruses with his economic ideologue, canoodled by the out of order democrats, voted by their constituents. in other words, majority of people did the economic shambles to themselves by voting the democrats in power, free for all hullabaloo. everyone must have boundaries in life or you will be like an out of control car swerving to become a total wreck, in turn may cost your life.

          • noz
            22 July 2013 at 1:22 am -

            who are you to tell me or anybody, to get over on obama’s substandard job performances. where do you think you are. this is america, you cannot tell nobody to get over it. why don’t you enumerate, what obama’s accomplishments were, so the unemployed, now out of the unemployment radar find decent jobs. i dare you to tell the nation, the world, what obama has accomplished in economic front. i can name one on top of my head, the gas prices at $4.00 per gallon is one of obama’s spin-off. go ahead, inform the public of obama’s deed to improve the economy, otherwise the public struggling with the weak, bleak economy are laughing AT YOU.

          • noz
            22 July 2013 at 1:35 am -

            i don’t get it. why are you discussing what other sovereign nations do, allowing all what you described to be unlawful in the USA. so what do you want the politician lawmakers of america do, arrest all these american rich capitalists for unlawful business practices, send them to jail?. please, please get your thought processes together, people are uncontrollably laughing AT YOU.

          • Delia
            22 July 2013 at 7:24 am -

            @Wil, Unfortunately, there are other heavy industry manufacturing cities on the same road to ruin. Now , wether you believe it or not , its up to you . As i stated before , i do not know much about Union , or Corporations and running a bussines so i wont insert myself discussing on the issue .

            Regardless of what my opinions are wether they are half truth or all truth , this will remain to be seen. I dont know if the bussinesses makes that much as you said , but consider this , Goverment take as much taxes before the goods release at the market , the bussiness owner probably paid a humangous amount of taxes to get the goods out on the market , plus maybe even more to advertise their goods and other regulations just so they can sell them.

            Then , Actors , actress and athletes , famous people advertise them and make bundle. So my point is after all that expenses , i believe bussiness owners made a little profit if you think about it. Let me explain an example , Nike , probably cost little or nothing from where it is manufactured , but when it hits USA , all kinds of regulations tags along with it. If the bussiness owner does not comply ,their goods has no chance to hit the markets. Or if it did hit the market , consumer will find a way to sue . Unless you have a good lobbyist in Washington DC, theres excemptions to bend a rules.

            There again, bussiness owners has to pay insurance , incase they get sued to protect their liability. At the end , after all cost, bussiness owner have made some but not as we all think. So , then comes Unions , another organization who want to bleed corporations money for nothing , because why ? i have no clue , its just a whole big mess with no justice to move, they want to control and muscle people out of bussiness i suppose. That’s my opinion .

          • delialusional
            22 July 2013 at 7:31 am -

            Thank you Wil…. Noz and Delia is the marriage of two idiots that only knows one thing, and that is to blame blacks, Obama and his constituents on just about everything, whether your kitchen sinks leaks to whether your kids can apply for student loans or not. However, their berates of Obama has no basis, they are just simply expressing their hates towards blacks and the democrats. They indeed have the right to express their opinions, but no one has the right to express their racists and ignorant opinions. Ignorance is not an excuses, rather it’s a sad truth for many of those who are too-conservative and are way too far to the right.

          • noz
            22 July 2013 at 8:42 am -

            DELIALUSIONAL, BULOKNAISDA, AV, CERTAINLY NOW ANOTHER FACE WiL?, ONLY MORONS, LIKE YOU ALL, THROW THE RACE CARD. THE SAME LIKE YOUR MESS…IAH OBAMA, ANOTHER RACIST MORON WHO CANNOT FIX THE ECONOMY WITH HIS MARXIST IDEOLOGUE. INSTEAD, OBAMA KEPT ON PLAYING THE RACE CARD WITHOUT A SHAME, IS THE RACIST PRESIDENT OF ALL TIME, TO GO DOWN IN HISTORY AND WILL BE ON HIS TOOMB EPITAH. OBAMA IS SO BUSY WITH HIS RACIST TONE ONE LINER – “TRAYVON MARTIN COULD HAVE BEEN ME”. THIS IS TO AGITATE THE COMMONSENSICAL PUBLIC, A WAY OF COVERING UP WITH SMOKE THE REALITY, OBAMA HAVE BEEN ECONOMICALLY DESTROYING THE GOOD OLD USA, WITH SO MANY SUCKERS, LIKE THESE FILIPINO SUCKERS, LIVING OFF ON OTHER PEOPLE’S MONEY. YES, THE SUCKERS ARE THE DEFENDERS OF OBAMA’S ECONOMIC MESS OF 17 TRILLION DEBTS. THE LEVEL HEADED PUBLIC ARE ALL LAUGHING AT YOU WITH YOUR BULLCRAP. EVERYBODY ARE HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, A T Y O U ALL. BULLSHITTERS ONLY KNOW ONE THING, TO FOUL MOUTH PEOPLE, WHO THEY DISAGREE WITH, WITH THEIR VILE PERSONAL ATTACKS. BUT CANNOT INTELLIGENTLY WEIGH IN, FOCUS ON DISCUSSIONS OF THE TOPIC. THAT’S WHAT STUPID DELIALUSIONAL, BULOKNAISDA, AV, WiL KEPT ON DOING, ALL THEIR POSTURING ARE BEING LAUGH AT BY THE INTELLIGENT, SENSIBLE PEOPLE READING THE THREAD.

          • delialusional
            22 July 2013 at 9:20 am -

            @NOZ – CAN YOU PLEASE EXPRESS YOUR FEELING TOWARDS BARACK OBAMA, DEMOCRATS AND LET ALONE, BLACKS?? I AM ASKING YOU NICELY AND NOT IN A COMBATANT KIND OF WAY?? WE SIMPLY WANT TO UNDERSTAND YOUR DISPROVE OF THE PRESIDENT AND HIS PARTY… YOU SEEMED TO BE VERY IRRITATED BY THE PRESIDENT…. THERE’S GOT TO BE A SOLID REASON WHY YOUR REACTIONS ARE SO BLATANT….

        • delialusional
          22 July 2013 at 6:32 am - Reply

          @Delia – anyone would fight for what they believe but not for the truth. In your case, you kept of fighting for what you want to believe in (ika nga maipilit ang gusto). It’s not necessarily that what you are saying are all true, because you lack factual backgrounds on some of your debates.

          • delialusional
            22 July 2013 at 8:51 am -

            Delia and Noz – you are all nothing but republican focused individuals. So go ahead and be the hard headed people like your Lords of Republican Boehner, who knows nothing but to play the game of politics and not think about the country and be the American that they claim they are.. The sole reason why this country is in shambles is because your beloved republican party is so tough that they’d rather send this country into a ditch so just that they can force the issue of their political party. Republicans do not want to compromise on just about anything, and yet you blame Obama for that???? If I were Obama I would do the same, I would counter you with a NO, it’s what you want right? Play hard ball politics?? So, here goes your hard ass republicans, a divided and broke country !!!!

          • delialusional
            22 July 2013 at 8:57 am -

            NOZ – PLEASE STOP EXPRESSING YOURSELF, YOUR ANGER AND FOUL WORDS. YOU ARE JUST SIMPLY PUTTING YOURSELF OUT HERE MAN… YOU ARE THE ONE WHO IS SAYING FOUL LANGUAGE, WALANG NAGMUMURA DITO KUNDI IKAW KAYA IKAW ANG MANAHIMIK OK??

          • noz
            22 July 2013 at 9:55 am -

            DELIALUSIONAL, BULOKNAISDA, AV, NOW WiL? YOU DON’T EVEN KNOW THE MEANING OF CURSING, EXPECTED OF YOU, THE TRUE IGNORAMUS IS LAUGHABLE, LIKE A CLOWN. THE RESPONSIBLE PUBLIC ARE LAUGHING AT YOU. GO, GET AN EDUCATION ON AMERICAN CULTURE. ONE THING, YOU MUST NEVER EVER DO, IS ASSAULTING THE FIRST AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION. GO, GET AN EDUCATION ON THE CONSTITUTION OF THE USA. S T U P I D I T Y WILL NEVER EVER GET YOU NOWHERE, BUT BE A SUCKER OF OBAMA’S GROWING LISTS OF WELFARE RECIPIENTS.

          • delialusional
            22 July 2013 at 10:12 am -

            CONTINUE ON WITH YOUR LOW LIFE IGNORANT ATTACKS NOZ… YOU CANNOT AND WILL NOT WIN AN ARGUMENT WITH FIGHTING WORDS… WASTE OF MY TIME….. HERE’S YOUR FIRST AMENDMENT AND SECOND AMENDMENT… YOUR DEAD KIDS !!!

          • noz
            22 July 2013 at 12:15 pm -

            DELILUSIONAL, BULOKNAISDA, AV, JOIN BY WiL, WHAT LUNATIC?, “YOUR DEAD KIDS” HERE IS TO YOU, YOUR OWN WORDS OF DEAD KIDS ARE BOOMERANGING TO YOUR KIDS. YOU HAVE PROVEN YOURSELF AS A REAL SOCIOPATH. THAT’S WHY THE SECOND AMENDMENT WILL NEGATE YOUR ILL WILL TO OTHERS. YOUR THREAT IS CRIMINAL, MUST BE ARRESTED, TRIED AND IMPRISONED. BE IT IN RECORD THIS DELIALUSIONAL, BULOKNAISDFA, AV, JOIN BY WiL ARE CRIMINALS, THREATENING OF KILLING, MURDERING CHILDREN. GET OUT OF YOUR HIDING AND SURRENDER TO AUTHORITIES.

          • delialusional
            22 July 2013 at 12:48 pm -

            WHAT ??? NOW YOU ARE TWISTING THE ENTIRE DEBATE, WE ARE NOW THE COMBATANT MILITANTS !!!! WE ARE NOW THE ONES WHO SUPPORTS THE DEADLY SECOND AMENDMENT??? WOW YOU ARE A COWARD… SAYING COWARDLY WORDS !!!!

          • noz
            22 July 2013 at 6:06 pm -

            DELIALUSIONAL, BULOKNAISDA, AV, WiL, YOU SAID “YOUR DEAD KIDS”, SO, YOU ARE USING THE SECOND AMENDMENT TO KILL, MURDER KIDS, DON’T YOU? TELLING ME I AM COWARD? OR ITS YOU GETTING SCAREDY-CAT FOR YOUR POSITION?, CAUGHT EMPTY HANDED. THAT’S WHAT CRIMINAL ALWAYS SAY. I DID NOT SAY THAT, I DID NOT DO THAT, ETC. YOU ARE VERY TYPICAL.

      • noz
        21 July 2013 at 7:13 pm - Reply

        let’s get this straight. we are talking about detroit aren’t we? your typical liberal blurt will make you join the rest of the liberals, being LAUGH AT by level headed people of the world, why? its because of their foolish marxist ideologues, an infection obama is spreading like you love so much, and the rest of your COMPADRES AND COMADRES are living to the fullest. how? obama’s style is to quiet half of the populace by giving them other people’s hard earned dollars. that’s how the general population of detroit exist, people’s handouts. you cannot comprehend the analysis of Delia and mine, so its easy for you to blab/gush the word crap, the usual liberal anti business getting old rebut BS talk – the CEO get millions bonuses. so what do you want the CEO of the world do, give more money to the lazies of america? there is no such thing as free lunch or am i wrong, since there are too many welfare recipients. the only way, america can be strong AGAIN, economically is – HEALTHY citizens and legal residents must have JOBS, to pay income taxes. yes, its all about healthy individuals working very, very hard period. private businesses are the only one who can offer jobs to the jobless, not your king obama, who in his first term, have recklessly spends taxpayer trillions acting as wannabe employer. obama’s ideologues is make business people as his public enemy number one, by hefty taxations of their capital gains to redistribute to the jobless, eventually becoming lazies, resigned not to look for work claiming there are no decent jobs out there. to a point these jobless population are right. why?, the wealthy employers are offering mostly part time jobs, some pack their businesses to foreign countries with friendly, fair taxations. many american workers have followed their employers overseas, just to stay afloat, not to be caught with the madness of obama’s administration creating humans as wastes by being parasites, loosing their freedom in the pursuit of happiness.

        can you dig this? i am specifically talking about the detroit autoworkers union, who went overboard, over zealot, by digging their own grave by clamping the carmakers. the rank and file uncooperative practices, endorsed/directed by their union leaders in implementations of advanced techniques in car making. the cause/effect is america got overtaken by carmakers of the world, producing cars/trucks with advanced designs, etc, their number one customers are the american consumers. US carmakers was so behind, their sales dwindling. the car recalls, manufacturers defect worsen the situation. the business of making cars/trucks in detroit turn out to be a recipe for disaster, cooked by the union leaders operating like thugs. i did not say, i am against organized labor. i used to be a delegate of a strong national union, so i know what i am talking about in terms of contract negotiations, organizing a non union shops for union representations via employees elections. i experienced going on strikes, going on settling grievances, etc. my time with the union was a positive experiences, first i earned my advance degree in my chosen profession, paid by my employer as part of the union contract, which i will forever be thankful for the union. looking back, i can unequivocally say then, i was lucky working with union leaders with integrity/conservative values. i learned from my union leaders – YOU MUST ALWAYS BARGAIN IN GOOD FAITH, then the union members/employers are both WINNERS, without GOOD FAITH, then both union members/employers are sore LOSERS. bargaining in GOOD FAITH is simply playing fairness in both parties involved, to protect the union workers/the employers. the current trend is this marxist ideologue of obama, together with his far, far, far lefty cohorts, the like of reid and pelosi, successfully made half of the populace embracing, liking all the freebies from the income taxpayers, the obama administration is redistributing. the demagoguery/demonizing employers are spread like wildfire by the main steam media, which BTW some national cables are attempting to drop ABC, NBC, CBS. go ahead, join the bandwagon of obama, driving away the rich employers to either, states with the right to work law, by enlarged the red states or worst to overseas, which is growing like cancer. you know what?, then BANKRUPTCY maybe coming to your HOOD.

      • noz
        21 July 2013 at 9:17 pm - Reply

        any cities, counties, towns of america without the capitalist employers will open doors for exit. the first to depart are those with comfortable savings, down to the middle class with enough money to survive for 3 to 6 months, all looking for better places that will employ them, like hunting where they can find the wealthy capitalists running businesses. the one left behind, unfortunately are those who cannot afford to leave, and join the exodus. people living in decayed detroit are left without a choice, but to live on welfare. the main business of detroit was the auto industry, now a memory. this is expected if there are no business diversity, example was the boom of the oil industry, the sole business of houston, texas going bust. the economic recovery of houston, texas was the resurgence of business diversity. detroit, michigan must learn from houston, texas from bust to boom, ones again on their own, without federal bailouts. the 2012 adoption of the right to work law by the state of michigan, hopefully will become like a magnet for the wealthy capitalists to invest in detroit, a city in distress. if, detroit gets bailout by obama with the taxpayer dollars, then continue the practice of extreme left wing agendas, then detroit will never ever attract the wealthy capitalists to invest in their city, will be back to square one, again busted the second time around.

      • noz
        21 July 2013 at 10:55 pm - Reply

        i can’t help but ask you – if you are a wealthy employer making huge profit on your invented business model, working really hard, putting in 70+ hours per week, will you openly distribute your profit to your paid employees?, yes or no?. your talk of people with jobs, you described above are the descriptions of illegal aliens working illegally, hired illegally by exploiting employers, both need to go to jail, then deported, the employers get hefty fine to the fullest extent of the law allowed. your narratives are the left wing talking points. credible businesses do not engage on such shady business operations. the minimum wage is the law, so your choice of word squat do not apply to citizens/legal aliens, who are legally employed, have open opportunities, either advance their skills through studies, seminars, work experiences, or take another part time jobs to make more money. citizens/legal aliens have the right to make as much money as they want to. the government has no right to seize the hard earned money via over the top taxations of the rich or non rich for redistribution to the lazies, an obama ideologue, that you are sold to. only the marxists like obama and his cohorts are envious of the reputable wealthy capitalists, who work very hard to become rich. obama likes to seize other people’s dollars, so why not seize the monies of criminals, the drug dealers of america. the lawmaker politicians can introduce, pass laws – the criminal drug dealers liquid assets are subject for seizures by the government.

        • delialusional
          22 July 2013 at 6:34 am - Reply

          And you Noz, people in here is probably tired of you blaming Obama for whatever is happening in this country. Do you blame him for your stomach aches too, kasi iyak ka ng iyak, anong masakit sa iyo? Bulsa mo ba kasi bawas ang pension mo dahil sa sequestration. English lang diba ang alam mo?? Ed magtagalog ka, bisaya gusto mo ?

          • noz
            22 July 2013 at 7:33 am -

            DELIALUSIONAL, BULOKNAISDA, AV, THE MANY FACES. ARE YOU NOW Wil?, YOU WANT ME TO REPEAT?, YOU ARE ON WELFARE, A SUCKER, LIVING OFF ON OTHER PEOPLE’S MONEY, HANDED TO YOU BY YOUR LOVER OBAMA, THOSE LAUGHING AT YOU FROM THE BEGINNING, HAVE NOT STOPPED LAUGHING AT YOU. YOUR GROUP, THE OBAMA SLOBBERERS AND SUCKERS ARE GROWING WITH EQUALL FORCE OF PEOPLE LAUGHING AT YOU ALL. THE READERS KNOW YOU WELL, A TROLL FACE TROLLING ALONG THE THREADS OF YOUR BULLCRAPS. ALL THE READERS ARE HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, A T Y O U.

          • delialusional
            22 July 2013 at 7:36 am -

            Ay baliw, tawa ng tawa ng wala namang pinagtatawanan. Napahiya ka lang kasi kay Wil. Kung marunong ka talaga, malalaman mo kung ako nga yang si Wil. Palibhasa kasi ikaw tumatalon ka agad sa conclusions ng walang basehan.

          • delialusional
            22 July 2013 at 7:38 am -

            Mag repeat ka ng repeat, lahat naman ng allegations mo eh kabaligtaran. Oh baka naman ikaw yang mga sinasabi mo, baka ikaw ang lintang sipsip ng sipsip sa pera ng iba at programs ng gov’t. ???

        • delialusional
          22 July 2013 at 7:34 am - Reply

          Ano daw un? Wala kang sinabi kundi kahabaan eh, ang yabang yabang mong magsalita puro wala naman kwenta pinagsasabi mo. Noz, kung gusto mo mapanasin huwag kang magsulat ng parang legal opinion, sa tuusin nga maikli lang ang legal opinion para madaling maintindihan. Kung reaction paper naman ang gusto mong isulat, eh nasa maling pahina ka ng internet. Detroit ang pinaguusapan tapos dinadala mo sa illegal aliens at Obama. Oh man, this person is just as confused as his writing is.

        • delialusional
          22 July 2013 at 7:57 am - Reply

          Do you realize what you are saying Noz – you are claiming the bandwagon of liars, deceivers etc. You said you were a part of these and that and you have an Advanced degree??? Degree on what?? You sure don’t sound like you have enough education as to how you express your opinions. You are like this person Rodney… whereas he said he just bought this and that and that he has also an advanced degree, un pala reversed degree. Hahahahaha, people are laughing at you for your comments are not laughable but deadly laughable.

          • noz
            22 July 2013 at 9:25 am -

            DELIALUSIONAL, BULOKNAISDA, AV, WiL, THE MANY FACES, SHOWING OFF YOUR IGNORANCE, POOR COMPREHENSIONS, UNEDUCATED WRITING, COPYING COPYCAT BONEHEAD. REREAD YOUR LAUGHABLE, UNINTELLIGENT WRITING. YOU OUGHT TO BE ASHAME OF YOURSELF, A WELFARE RECIPIENT, A SUCKER, LIVING OFF ON OTHER PEOPLE’S MONEY. YES, YOU ARE LAUGHING WITH YOUR SCHEME OF SUCKING THE WELFARE SYSTEM, CANNOT FEEL, WITHOUT A CLUE, THE HIGH GAS PRICES, THE HIGH GROCERY PRICES, HIGH RENT, ETC. THE ONLY ONE, WHO CAN FEEL, FULLY AWARE OF THE INFLATED PRICES ON OBAMA’S TERM ARE THE HARD WORKERS PAYING HIGH INCOME TAXES, TO SUPPORT SUCKERS LIKE YOU. SO, WHO DO YOU THINK NEEDS TO BE BLAMED, YOUR NEIGHBOR?, SEE, YOUR CONSISTENT STUPIDITY? ARE LAUGHABLE. THE HARD WORKERS OF AMERICA ARE HA, HA,HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA ,HA, A T Y O U. ALL YOU HAVE ARE YOUR STUPID, IRRATIONAL, CONFUSED MASS OF BONES YOU DUG, POOR ENGLISH WRITING SKILL. THE RATIONAL PUBLIC WILL KEEP ON LAUGHING AT YOU.

          • delialusional
            22 July 2013 at 9:34 am -

            @NOZ – If you no longer cannot construct a good and readable argument in this thread, please cease on responding because your way on attacking those who DISAGREE with you is by name calling, insulting, and berating them.. You said poor english?? It’s because you cannot understand plain and simple english !!! It’s that simple !

          • delialusional
            22 July 2013 at 9:38 am -

            NOZ, NOZ, NOZ AND NOZ — YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A LOW LIFE SUCKER IN THIS WORLD… KNOWS NOTHING BUT TO WHINE ABOUT NON-SENSE… WHY DON’T YOU GET A JOB, A REAL JOB AND START REALIZING THE TYPE OF WORLD YOU LIVE NOW… YOU ARE A TYPICAL FILIPINO WHINER WHO WANTS MORE OUT OF WHAT IS ALREADY GIVEN TO YOU !!! YOU MUST BE ANGRY THAT FOOD STAMPS ARE BEING CUT, YOU MUST BE ANGRY BECAUSE YOUR STATE OF CALIFORNIA IS BROKE AND KEEPS ON VOTING FOR DEMOCRATS…. YOU ARE ANGRY BECAUSE YOU CANNOT HANDLE THE TRUTH BECAUSE IT HURTS THE BEST….

          • noz
            22 July 2013 at 11:53 am -

            DELIALUSIONAL, BULOKNAISDA, AV, THE ADDED FACE WiL. YOUR REBUT IS DESCRIBING, ADDRESSING YOURSELF, A SUCKER LIVING OFF ON OTHER PEOPLE’S MONEY LOVING SO MUCH THE ECONOMICS OF OBAMA. THIS IS EXPECTED OF YOU, THE SUCKER TO FILL YOUR EMPTY BRAIN. TRYING HARD TO SPIT OUT YOUR TRUE SELF, THE GREAT SUCKER TO OTHERS IS BOOMERANGING TO YOU, TO HIT YOUR BONEHEAD, TOO LAUGHABLE TO ALL WHO ARE INCOME TAXPAYERS. THE HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, AT YOU, IS A JOINT VENTURE OF YOUR COMPADRES/COMADRES IN ACCORD OF YOUR STUPIDITY, EXPOSING, INCRIMINATING THE CHAOS OF OBAMA AND THE DEMOCRATIC OUT OF ORDER PATY. SAY WHAT? SIMPLE AND PLAIN ENGLISH?. ONLY, A FRAUD LIKE YOU, WILL FABRICATE, MADE UP NON EXISTENCE TO EXIST. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS PLAIN AND SIMPLE ENGLISH. YOU MEAN – THIS IS A BOY, THIS IS A GIRL, THIS IS A FLOWER. THIS IS THE FORUM FOR PEOPLE WITH ANALYTICAL BRAIN. WHERE DO YOU THINK YOU ARE IN A THIRD GRADE CLASSROOM?. YOU CANNOT ANALYZE, WEIGH IN ON THE ABOVE TOPIC. SO FAR, AS I HAVE SAID A MILLION TIMES, YOU HAVE NOT WRITTEN ANALYTICAL NARRATIVES ON ANY TOPICS OR SUBJECTS. ALL YOU HAVE SHOWN ARE, YOUR POOR WRITING SKILL, POOR CONTENT OR POOR THOUGHT PROCESSES OF PERSONAL ATTACKS. SO, TELL THE INTELLIGENT READERS OF THIS FORUM, EXACTLY WHAT OBAMA HAS DONE SO FAR, TO IMPROVE THE WEAK ECONOMY, LIKE BRINGING THE GAS PRICES AT AFFORDABLE COST, ETC. GO AHEAD SHOW YOU HAVE AN ANALYTICAL MIND OR DO YOU WANT TO REVEAL YOUR TRUE SELF, YOU HAVE AN EMPTY BRAIN, I THINK, I AM CORRECT OF MY CLINICAL ASSESSMENT OF YOU, THE BONE HEAD.

          • noz
            22 July 2013 at 6:16 pm -

            DELIALUSIONAL, BULOKNAISDA, AV, WiL, YOU DEFEATED ME?, LAUGHABLE. JUST BECAUSE OF YOUR THREAT, “YOUR DEAD KIDS”?. SAY THE SAME WORDS INSIDE YOUR JAIL CELL, ONCE THE AUTHORITIES CATCH UP WITH YOU.

        • Delia
          22 July 2013 at 12:12 pm - Reply

          @Noz, Have you notice ? Their usual ad hominem attacks in lieu of facts from non other than the 2 troll who love their satanic attitude. They really need to take a reading comprehension course.

          • noz
            22 July 2013 at 12:22 pm -

            again, AMEN to you, Delia.

          • delialusional
            22 July 2013 at 12:53 pm -

            I THINK I AM NOT CORRECT WITH MY ASSESSMENT OF YOU… IGNORANT AND DUMB.. THE WORST COMBINATION OF BEING A RETARD… THE DUMB, IGNORANT, SHORT TEMPERED HIGH RIDING WITH LOW SELF ESTEEM SON OF ALL RETARDS IN THIS PLANET !!! GET A LIFE YOU LOW FLYING UNEDUCATED H****R !!!!

          • delialusional
            22 July 2013 at 12:55 pm -

            I THOUGHT I WAS CORRECT WITH MY THOUGHTS THAT YOU ARE AN INTELLECT PERSON, BUT NO I WAS WRONG.. YOU ARE ONE, BLEEP BLEEP….. JUST READ MY EARLIER POST OF WHO YOU REALLY ARE.. COWARD AND CANNOT ACCEPT A DEFEAT !!

          • noz
            22 July 2013 at 6:26 pm -

            DELIALUSIONAL, BULOKNAISDA, AV, WiL, GO, READ MY REBUT TO YOU ON THE TOP. WHY ARE YOU REPLYING ON Delia REPLY COLUMN OF YOUR THREAT?, “YOUR DEAD KIDS”. STOP HIDING IN THIS THREAD.

  • Wil
    21 July 2013 at 11:08 am - Reply

    @Delia .. It has nothing to do with liberals. It’s corporate America, saying why should I pay these Americans a good wage?; when I can get someone to built it for 50cents to 2.00 an hour and no benefits,
    to build it. That’s how corporations operate in the United States. Like every where else; people + power + politics = corruption. We see it time and time again, whether you’re in the United States or in the Philippines.

    • Delia
      21 July 2013 at 1:01 pm - Reply

      @Wil , You maybe right , but i am just paraphrasing what this guy predicted 25 years ago , and its stunning that what he said then is actually coming true. . He was a big bussiness man and knows how to run a succesful big corporation . Actually he did run for president as Independent , but lost. You may not heard of him but you can Google his name and you can read about his background which is very impressive .

      • Wil
        21 July 2013 at 1:44 pm - Reply

        @Delia, I know who he is. I remember once they start questioning his record, he dropped out of the race. If I remember correctly he once was in the Navy, I think a naval Officer. You and I can make a prediction and have a chance for it to come true. I can say I predict Detroit will rebound in about 25 years. How accurate is that? I still say that is was the combination of Union and Corporate greed that did Detroit in.

        • Delia
          22 July 2013 at 8:45 am - Reply

          @wil , if thats the case , i’d say they are the job killers to say the least.

  • delialusional
    22 July 2013 at 6:28 am - Reply

    @Wil – it is in fact true, liberals nor republicans has nothing to do with Detroit. It’s pure Corporate America, Ford and other car companies failed Detroit and not by any other political parties. If this Noz dude remembers, that the government actually bailed out Ford out of bankruptcy. And now he’s saying that liberals failed Detroit?? Come on Noz, can you please seriously get your facts right before you putak putak???

  • Delia
    22 July 2013 at 7:41 am - Reply

    Comments are often enlightening. However, sometimes, comments become merely rebuttals and/or insults between two of more posters. That surely degrades the whole idea of comments.

    • delialusional
      22 July 2013 at 7:48 am - Reply

      Salamat Delia or whoever you are now… Comments do make sense if the comments itself contains truthful and good argumentative facts rather than expressions of hate, insults and non-sense arguments. It’s garbage in, garbage out kind of thing.

  • Delia
    22 July 2013 at 8:33 am - Reply

    Here comes the 2 bottom-feeder with invectives and name-calling.

    But it could be easily ignored for lack of factual and intellectual content

    • delialusional
      22 July 2013 at 8:39 am - Reply

      Hahahaha, here goes the two-dimension posters.

    • delialusional
      22 July 2013 at 8:39 am - Reply

      Intellectual and factual content ba kamo.. Eh ikaw un eh….

  • jr(catholic against capitalism)
    22 July 2013 at 1:55 pm - Reply

    outsourcing jobs overseas for corporate profits is the ritual practice by the capitalists who worship mammon. it has been practiced since the europeans have discovered that the world was not flat after all and that there are other exotic cultures on the other side of the world. this scintilating idea of discovery lead to the competition on who can grab lands and extort their natural resources the most. thus, the europeans and their colonies became very rich and powerful…. and it continues to the modern age, with a modern twist, and more clever than ever before. only now, the corporations will extort the resources and use the people on the other side of the world for cheap labor, without any benifits, working in horrible conditions, and sometimes with continues long work hours without any breaks. the capitalists also have the power to buy off any natural resources they want from other countries and make those people pay for ridiculous rate that they used to get for free like water! all of these for what? for money and control to the detriment of the people. that’s what they did to detroit. after they made a profit, used the people and the area as their resources for production, they abandoned without remorse… it’s all about money and that’s the only thing the capitalists are after….

  • Wil
    22 July 2013 at 3:03 pm - Reply

    @Noz, I guess we’ll have to educate you. Now pay attention. President Obama took office after the economy was tanking. The recession had to run its course. The price of gas has nothing to do with the President. One needs to look at the greedy oil corporations for that. The United States is second to Saudi Arabia in the production. The reason why gas is so high is 1. U.S. exports most of its oil, 2. World demand and 3. According to the oil companies not enough refineries, which the oil companies have a monopoly on. The only way you will keep oil prices down, is if you regulate it. Are you for the federal government regulating the price of gas? The S&P 500, Dow and NASDAQ are all up by 18% for the year. You know what that mean? I’ll tell you that means your 401k is doing GREAT! Housing market is on the rebound. Don’t forget all the Economist say that the unemployment rate is a lagging indicator. If you don’t know what that means then research it.

    @Noz and Delia … leaders are not born … They’re made. Like Abraham Lincoln, Martin Luther King, Jose P Rizal, Benefacio, Mr. Aquino Sr. and others.

    • noz
      22 July 2013 at 9:30 pm - Reply

      1. wrong, the US export 9% of refined oil to canada for logistic reason. the same logistic reason, canada also export oil to US. oils from US not meeting clean air requirements are exported in singapore, other asian nations.
      2. wrong, there is surplus of refining capacity in the US. oil is a commodity subject to volatile pricing, therefore cannot be regulated. obama have said, he is against the pipeline to side with the militant environmentalists, driving the oil cartels of the middle east manipulating crude oil prices.
      3. the lagging unemployment indicator of 7.6% is wrong. the true unemployment indicator is 11%+.
      4. leadership begins inside of the individual for effective leadership, while learned leadership always will fail, remember obama he slacked on his shovel ready?, unsure of what he is doing. obama also have categorically said, he has given up with the conservative group, shows he is both, was not born a natural leader and have not learned to be a leader, that is if learned leadership work for him. obama does not even know what’s going on on his own administration, misled the public that the benghazi attack was because of the video. natural born leader is GOD given gift of talent, like singing, dancing, other talents. no matter what a person does to learn how to sing, if the person was born without the talent of singing, no way can that person sing.
      5. wrong, leadership is a natural talent. abraham lincoln have become the gold standard for what good leadership means, as a POTUS, so as martin luther king, jr., who was able to lead the civil rights movement, mobilizing millions of blacks to fight for equality.

      • delialusional
        23 July 2013 at 6:21 am - Reply

        Per Noz – OBAMA IS WRONG – End of story to make you happy.

        • jorge buesa
          23 July 2013 at 7:55 am - Reply

          delialusional your right OBAMA IS WRONG, he knows that he has made some big mistakes. Oh well you live and learn, you win some and lose some.

          • Wil
            23 July 2013 at 2:55 pm -

            @Jorge … you’re just plain stupid. You put forth a statement and you can’t back it up.

      • delialusional
        23 July 2013 at 6:27 am - Reply

        Leadership is taught and learned… There aren’t no perfect leaders as they are all humans and do make mistakes, unless you are Mitt Romney whom is perfect for all republicans..

        • jorge buesa
          23 July 2013 at 10:12 pm - Reply

          Hey wil, that’s ok if i can’t back-up my statement, i’ll read your statement? looks like you know everything in america. Keep-up the good work !

      • delialusional
        23 July 2013 at 8:25 am - Reply

        Noz – do you realize that every single word that you are using are scripts out of Wikipedia??? Am not surprise you are so lost…

        • noz
          23 July 2013 at 6:26 pm - Reply

          DELIALUSIONAL, BULOKNAISDA, AV, YOU NEVER LIVE AND LEARN, AFTER YOUR VICIOUS THREAT “YOUR DEAD KIDS” DROOLS. AGAIN, AGAIN, AGAIN, AGAIN, AGAIN, AGAIN, AGAIN, AGAIN, AGAIN, AND AGAIN, THE WORDS OF Delia IS YOUR FEROCIOUS AD HOMINEM. WHY DON’T YOU PICK ON MY POST, SPECIFIC WORDS, SENTENCES FROM WIKI. IF YOU CANNOT DO THAT, THEN YOU NEED TO BE ARRESTED BY AUTHORITIES TO PUT YOU IN JAIL, AFTER ALL EVIDENCES PROVING YOU ARE NOT JUST A LIAR TROLL, BUT A CRIMINAL.

          • delialusional
            24 July 2013 at 6:25 am -

            @NOZ – ano ba problema mo? Wala ka na lang masabi eh, kaya puro apoy lumalabas sa pananalita mo !

        • noz
          24 July 2013 at 6:32 pm - Reply

          I AM TELLING YOU ALL, DELIALUSIONAL, BULOKNAISDA, AV, WiL, EACH HEAD INTERCHANGEABLY BELCHING OUT IS A CUNNING COBRA WITH MULTIPLE HEADS, DRIBBLING THEIR VILE SALIVAS FROM THEIR MULTIPLE MAWS IN THIS THREAD. GANG BANGERS ARE RUNNING AWAY FOR THEIR LIVES TO BE SAVED. IT SURELY HAVE OUT POWERED THE TROLLS TROLLING ALONG THIS THREAD. CERTAINLY, CRIMINALS LIKE YOU WITH MULTIPLE SNAKE HEADS, WHEN CAUGHT EMPTY HANDED WILL TOSS THE EASY WAY OUT, THAT THE PROBLEM IS THE PERSON (ME) YOU THREATENED, “YOUR DEAD KIDS”. YOU, A CRIMINAL MUST BE ARRESTED, TRIED, AND IMPRISONED PERIOD.

    • Delia
      23 July 2013 at 4:46 am - Reply

      @wil, I have my head spinning when you said this ,

      @Noz and Delia … leaders are not born … They’re made. Like Abraham Lincoln, Martin Luther King, Jose P Rizal, Benefacio, Mr. Aquino Sr. and others.

      Can you give a little detail on it …..how it came about ? Did they just appear in thin air ? I thought every species in this earth were born first.

      • Wil
        23 July 2013 at 2:53 pm - Reply

        @Delia … Abraham Lincoln … originally wasn’t for freeing the slaves; but he saw what it was doing to what was then the United States. He took action and came up with the Emancipation Proclamation, which freed the slaves in the rebellious states. For that he paid with his life. Martin Luther King … saw an injustice being done to his people. Through nonviolence he was able to wake up the minds of a nation. He paid with his life. Jose P. Rizal … saw his people being wronged. Through books and writings (Noli me Tangere) put the Spanish on notice. He paid with his life. The late Statesman Aquino. New his people needed a new direction. Returned to his country to give that spark of hope. He paid with his life.

        The men a mentioned above were not born into leadership. They were made through personal actions and situations; They all saw wrong, seized the moment and took action, which made them Leaders.

        @Noz you nothing about Abraham Lincoln … don’t give that lie that he freed the slave. He originally wasn’t for freeing the slaves, but he realize latter if he didn’t it would tear the nation apart. Before you talk out the wrong end again; the price of gas was regulated by the federal government up until President R. Reagan. That is when all the deregulation started. It was meant to drive prices down through competition. The only thing that happen was big oil companies snatched up the smaller ones and other companies merged. When they(Big oil companies) own the refineries, trucks, tankers and gas stations, they can set their own prices. Once again you didn’t do your homework. Remember when I said do research before you write?

        • noz
          23 July 2013 at 8:24 pm - Reply

          you are too proud you did your homework?. say what research?, all are laughing at you, its not a secret, level headed people knew well, while you, not knowing all your informations are wrong. first of all, reread my post, i did not mention lincoln freed the slaves in my post, calling me a liar?. don’t let me start, you deserve to be called a malicious storyteller perjurer. your phony information lincoln did not free the slaves are the inconsistent talking points of socialists, rewriting history. at times, these socialists agree lincoln freed the slaves, with insert, did not deserve all the credits in freeing the slaves. only silly fools like you believed informations coming from without a ring of truth socialist sources, even rewriting school books to spread their falsehood, intercepted/discarded by many public schools. these socialist groups are all out there regrouping to forever infiltrate the vulnerable ignoramus.

          I think you have a chronic problem deciphering the content of what you are reading. i said, oil is a commodity, subject to volatile pricing, therefore cannot be regulated. why? the world market number one is OPEC, followed by canada, european countries, venezuela, now brazil soon to enter the oil nation conglomerates have all the abilities to regulate the oil commodity, some have done so like venezuela is hostile to the USA. the problem of obama is his lack of proactive to offset the known reasons why a barrel of oil price skyrocketed, instead endorsed the occupy wall street protest to solve the problem. obama must aggressively be proactive in regulating the speculators with cheap capital supplied by friends of federal reserve under obama, and slim margin requirements, that have increased 20%, but not enough as we all see no change in high gas prices in the pump. the boldest move obama can do is agree on the pipeline from canada, which obama is very much against as a pro environmentalist, and to satisfy the militant group GREENPEACE, who hate the oil industry, by shutting down globally the oil businesses. canada’s oil will eventually go to china, if the USA reject the offer of america’s sister canada.

          • delialusional
            24 July 2013 at 6:21 am -

            @Wil – kahit ano ang sabihin mo sa taong yan, babaligtarin at babaligtarin ang usapan at isasawsaw ang socialists sa usapan. Ilalayo ng ilalayo ang main topic at wala kang makukuhang sagot kundi pang-aasar at paninisi. Kailan naging kasalanan ng presidente ang OPEC?? Kahit saang bansa naman siguro tumataas ang presyo ng langis bukod lamang kung saan ito nanggagaling.

        • Delia
          24 July 2013 at 6:34 pm - Reply

          @ Wil ,Somewhere along the lines , i think your answer to my questions was lost . Instead you told a short live history. However , before i get called names and get insulted , i guess i’ll let it go at that since it was not what i was expecting as an answer.

    • jr(catholic against rightwingextremism)
      23 July 2013 at 9:46 pm - Reply

      @Wil….. You will never say anything right to these “people.”

      • Wil
        24 July 2013 at 2:12 pm - Reply

        @Jr.. I agree they’re just plain ignorant. Noz, did read a word I wrote. He said the price of gas can’t be regulate, yet I was regulated up until Bush 41 took office. He also don’t know what the Emancipation Proclamation was. I bet he doesn’t even know what the 13th Amendment is. He’ just a joke.

        • noz
          24 July 2013 at 10:04 pm - Reply

          WiL, IS THE SAME AS DELIALUSIONAL, BULOKNAISDA, AV, AS I HAVE SAID, YOU ALL ARE IN ONE IS A SNAKE WITH MULTIPLE HEADS. FIRST OF ALL, BEFORE GRANDEUR SELF BELIEF TAKE OVER ON MANY EMPTY HEADS OF YOURS, TO THINK OF YOURSELF QUALIFIED TO TELL ME AS IGNORANT. YOU OUGHT TO CHECK OUT YOUR TOTAL IGNORANCE IN SPELLING, WRITING ENGLISH. SAY WHAT? ME A JOKE?, YOU ALL HAVE BECOME THE LAUGHING STOCKS, STOOGES BLABBERS OF MADE UP STORIES. DON’T YOU ALL HEAR, THE HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, AT YOU, WITH YOUR BOZO GLOSS THAT, I DON’T KNOW THE 13TH AMENDMENT OF THE US CONSTITUTION IS TOO LAUGHABLE. WHAT A JACKASS TO SAY, ME AGREEING WITH YOU ABOUT DEREGULATION?. THE INFORMED, LEVEL HEADED PUBLIC ALL KNEW WAY BEFORE – YES DEREGULATION IS THE APPROPRIATE WORD, NOT YOUR IGNORANT ENGLISH – CAN’T BE REGULATE – NOT ONLY IMPROPER WORDS, BUT WRONG GRAMMAR. ARE YOU A CLOWN? TO SAY TO OTHERS, YOU DO NOT KNOW, WHAT? “HE ALSO DON’T KNOW WHAT EMANCIPATION PROCLAMATION WAS”. AGAIN, WRONG GRAMMAR. I WAS EDUCATED HERE IN THE US SINCE I WAS BORN, SO MUST I TELL YOU, I HAVE LEARNED THE AMERICAN HISTORY SINCE GRADE SCHOOL? LET ME POINT OUT YOUR IGNORANCE, I MISSED. THE MARKET GOING BULL IN NO WAY WILL PUT PEOPLE OUT OF WORK FIND WORK. ANOTHER IGNORANCE OF YOURS, TO SAY THE HOUSING MARKET REBOUND IS PURE EXAGGERATION. WHY? THE REAL ESTATE SPECULATORS, THE FOREIGN HOME BUYERS ARE ABLE TO AFFORD THESE HOMES FOR SALES. NO AMERICAN WORKERS CAN QUALIFY OR AFFORD NONE OF THESE HOMES FOR SALES. IN SHORT, NO MONEY RESERVE, NOT ENOUGH INCOME MEANS NO PROPERTY TO OWN. SALARIES OF AMERICAN WORKERS HAVE DIMINISHED SINCE OBAMA TOOK OFFICE, PAYING RENT ALONE IS A HUGE FINANCIAL BURDEN. SO GET YOUR WRONG INFO ACCURATE.

        • noz
          24 July 2013 at 10:44 pm - Reply

          BTW, WiL, DELIALUSIONAL, BULOKNAISDA, AV, NOW JR(CATHOLIC AGAINST RIGHTWINGEXTREMISM) JOINING YOUR MULTIPLE HEADS AS ONE HUGE MULTIPLE MAWS. GET THIS, IN ALL YOUR EMPTY HEADS. ALL OF YOUR TALK ARE TALK TO YOUR OWN ASS, THEREFORE YOU ALL CAN’T TALK THE TALK. ALL YOU ALL HAVE ARE CHEAP TALK. SELF PROCLAIMED OF YOU ALL CAN TALK RIGHT IS TOO LAUGHABLE. AGAIN, AGAIN, AGAIN, AGAIN, AGAIN, AGAIN, AGAIN, AGAIN, AGAIN, AGAIN, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, TO YOU ALL, FROM PEOPLE WISHING YOU ALL WILL NOT BE THEIR NEIGHBOR, GOD FORBID.

  • jorge buesa
    22 July 2013 at 5:15 pm - Reply

    Hey guys the economist forgot to say, it will take america 20 – years to recover. And all of you are you really having fun makeing fun of eachother, some of the things you said is right ! So lets all be friends because when i read all the remarks it is funny but all is right in away ! Ameica is going down hill !

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